This is a guest Post by Brian Fields (AKA NIGHTWALKER) It was originally published at GeekExile. Thanks, Brian!
Found this article today:
Pyramid Holistic Wellness Center, 120 Merchants Row, Rutland, VT 05701, March 21, 2011 – Dr. Margaret Smiechowski, North America’s foremost expert on Himalayan salt, is pleased to announce that her latest salt cave design is set to be revealed on March 29th, 2011, at the opening of the Tranquility Salon and Wellness Center in Carlisle, PA. Like all of her salt caves, the Carlisle cave features eco-friendly building materials and a highly sophisticated climate-controlled environment. However, this cave represents what Dr. Smiechowski calls the “new generation” of caves in the United States.
In doing research, all I’ve been able to find of “Dr.” Smiechowski is this:
DR. MARGARET SMIECHOWSKI – Professor of Pathology, Skin Diseases, and Natural Medicine. Dr. Smiechowski graduated from European medical college with a midwife degree and also holds degrees in health education, health consulting, homeopathy, and currently holds a doctorate in homeopathic medicine. She has been a massage therapist for twelve years and has expertise in anatomy and physiology, as well as cupping.
Since Homeopathy isn’t a “science”, I’m not sure how seriously one should take a degree in it, let alone a doctorate. I haven’t been able to track down “European medical college”, so I’m not sure if it’s an accredited school.
“The Carlisle cave has significant design improvements far surpassing previous designs,” says Dr. Smiechowski. “In particular, this cave has a unique proprietary ceiling design that allows for a very high-tech ventilation system, offering the visitor the best of modern technology combined with old-world salt therapy.”
The Carlisle cave contains approximately 12,000 pounds of Himalayan salt, which is believed to be the purest salt on earth, containing all of the minerals that the human body requires for healthy living. The salt in this new cave is primarily of the darker burgundy color has been mined by hand without the use of equipment or chemicals. Visitors to the cave will enjoy the decor, which features recycled wood from an 1800′s barn, and soft lighting from unique copper lamps. While relaxing in the peaceful environment, up to ten visitors at once will absorb the minerals from the salt, as well as the negative ions given off from it, which creates a natural detoxification effect.
Purest salt on earth? Pure salt is one sodium ion with one chlorine ion. [Editor's note: Salt can be other anions besides chloride but NaCl is the most common form.) I find it suspicious that anyone would claim that mined salt is in anyway purer than refined salt. Table salt is simply pure salt with Iodine added. Salt is one of the easiest compounds to synthesize and to purify. Claims of a “Natural detoxification effect” on any level that provides a “dollar-for-dollar” benefit to your health are specious at best. Make no mistake, these services aren’t cheap. From the FAQ on pyramidvt.com:
Q: What is the pricing for the Salt Cave?
A: Single sessions are $10 per person per 55-minute treatment.
We do offer a ten-session punch card for $90, and we offer an
unlimited monthly pass for one person for $60. The entire cave
can be rented for $100/hour. The Salt Cave treatment room is
available for $40/hour.Salt is used in Dr. Smiechowski’s home country of Poland and throughout the world to help reduce inflammation, treat respiratory problems, prevent and reduce the severity of colds and flu, and for a wide variety of other medical problems. Tranquility Salon and Wellness Center will offer speleotherapy, the clinical use of salt through their new salt cave, in conjunction with a full array of wellness options. “Tranquility will be offering only services using all-natural products,” says Lisa Ramsey
There may be health benefits to ingesting or inhaling salt. There are studies that show that there is a benefit to inhaling a salt solution, through a (cheap) inhaler, to help with bronchitis or cystic fibrosis. It’s laughable to claim that you will get that benefit merely by “hanging out in a salt cave”. There are certainly no actual scientific studies to support the idea.
One final note. My spell checker has no idea what speleotherapy is. Not a good sign at all. [Editor's note: Speleo- means cave. I suppose hanging out in a cave is good if you are being pursued by hunters. However, I'd agree this is a tremendously silly idea.]
Comments on: "More “Woo” comes to Central Pennsylvania!" (37)
I suppose you could lick the walls. Is the treatment seriously just sitting around in the cave? You don’t even do anything? What a scam!
It is so sad to me that someone would take the time to criticize and minimize someone’s life work, let alone a very powerful healing modality that could help people on so many levels.
I see no credentials for the person who wrote this (other than his self-proclaimed “geek” status), so I am not sure what gives him the knowledge to criticize, for I do not see that he has done any real research beyond a Google search.
First, homeopathy IS considered a health science in other parts of the world and studies exist supporting its validity. Our American field of immunizations is based on the same principles as homeopathy. Just because something is not mainstream in the United States and because billions of dollars are not poured into studying it in the US does not mean that it is not a real science.
Second, while the author of this post incorrectly states that there are “certainly no scientific studies to support this idea,” there is a HUGE body of scientific evidence that supports the validity of the use of salt and salt caves as a serious wellness treatment. The majority of the peer-reviewed research was done in Poland and Asia and has not been published in English, so most Americans are not aware of it. In the United States, our focus is researching pharmaceutical treatments, so most Americans know nothing about the research that is done in other parts of the world–sorry, it’s not available on Google. For those who really want to learn something beyond the author’s opinion, I might suggest looking into the hospital that is built into the salt mines of Wieliczka, Poland.
Third, I see no credentials listed here that identify why the author of this post has any ability to educate about the chemical composition of salt. Is this author a scientist? Has he himself ever compared the chemical composition of Himalayan salt to table salt? Most importantly, has this person ever stepped foot in a salt cave?
While I could actually invest more of my time responding to each of the inaccuracies listed in this opinion post–everythng from challenging Dr. Smiechowski’s extensive education to the value of a $10 treatment for a salt cave session–it’s not worth my time because the person writing this post has clearly NOT done any real research. While the Internet is a wonderful tool for sharing information, it is sad to me that someone with an opinion can post this sort of thing that may prevent someone else who would really benefit from a salt treatment to use it. Sad, indeed.
The truth is this–I have personal, first-hand knowledge of the benefits of the salt cave. I have to admit that I was skeptical at first, too. How could relaxing in a cave bring all of the benefits claimed by those in Poland and Asia? The answer is simple…although the author above posted nothing about the actual mineral content of Himalayan salt, the air in a salt cave is saturated with the minerals from the salt. Himalayan salt actually contains at least 84 essential minerals and trace elements (which is scientifically documented) and a purity of air that cannot be denied. When you walk into a salt cave, you WILL notice immediately the ease of breathing and how clean the air feels. For me, someone who has always suffered from seasonal allergies to the point where there are days when I cannot go outside, the salt cave has helped me tremendously. I have also watched literally hundreds of other people experience the benefits of the cave–most of whom had no prior knowledge or expectation of its benefits.
So how about this? If it is just “bunk,” what do you have to lose in trying a salt treatment? Seriously. Before you criticize (and slander) someone else, why not actually try it out for yourself? Why not get out of your chair and look for research beyond what is on Google? Why not actually approach the people who know this stuff with a respectful yet skeptical tone (instead of pretending to be someone who is really interested in the topic) and give them an opportunity to actually respond to your opinions through dialogue? Why not print your credentials? Last I knew, “geek” wasn’t a complimentary term for someone with real knowledge. For those of us truly in the research community, this opinion article would be entertaining but nothing beyond that as it is not written in a scholarly manner. The unfortunate part is that things like this can be posted–and I know there are people out there who NEED the Himalayan salt treatment but will read this and disregard it.
Very sad. And in my opinion, reckless.
I wonder what the person who wrote this could do if he used his powers of persuasion for good instead of stuff like this. Wow–what amazing contributions he could probably make to society. How about it, Nightwalker? Let’s see what you can do!
What do you have to lose? How about money? And, if you have a serious problem, you may forego actual medical treatments for sham ones. That is the hazard of complementary and alternative practices.
In the scientific community, skepticism (peer review and critique) is CRITICAL to the endeavor to weed out weak and flawed ideas. I understand that you wish to counter such critique since it may cost you money but, nonetheless, there is no evidence that homeopathy or salt caves or any of a hundred untested, unverified modalities are useful except as a placebo or relaxation technique. Again, I STRONGLY object to your claims that any of these have scientific validity. After hundreds of studies, homeopathy, for one, has failed to work beyond placebo effects. Credentialled professionals feel strongly that CAM is nonsense. http://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/?p=6115
There are many many reasons why anecdotes of “it just works” are useless. Persuasive to some, sure, but not to critical thinkers who realize how easily people can fool themselves. So, “personal, first-hand knowledge” is not convincing.
That said, thank you for visiting and providing your viewpoint!
As part of the scientific community, I agree 100% that peer review and critique is essential. You’ve missed the point of my reply, though. Peer review and critique is not what actually happened here.
Believe it or not, “Idoubtit,” there are people out there who actually care about something beyond money. My motives for writing have nothing to do with money, but are related to the people who might read the opinions of you and the author and who might pass on a treatment that could be of benefit. Just because you cannot find a peer-reviewed journal article about the benefits of Himalayan salt in English does not mean that they do not exist (have you personally actually looked for a study about Himalayan salt?). I am totally in agreement with you that some forms of CAM are shams. Himalayan salt caves are not one of them, though.
And even if you do hold your opinion that Himalayan salt caves are bunk, show me anywhere on my website where I have suggested that Himalayan salt cave treatments should REPLACE Western medicine. We are very clear that Himalayan salt treatments are to be used in conjunction with Western medicine. I challenge you to show one study that invalidates the use of Himalayan salt.
As a “credentialed professional” myself, I will respectfully disagree with you. In addition to my own personal experience, I have several degrees from accredited colleges and universities, am professionally licensed, and I have been part of the research community for years. I do believe in CAM. Your opinion is not held by everyone in this “community.”
If I was trying to write an article to debunk Himalayan salt, this is what I would do: I would actually contact the “experts” on the topic, identify myself as someone writing an article to debunk it, and I would ask to see their research, learn about their education and experience, and give them an opportunity to respond to my concerns. This is not what happened here. Instead, someone connected to this article contacted me pretending to be someone interested in learning about Himalayan salt and asked a series of questions that anyone qualified to write this post should already have known. Had I known who he was and what he was doing, I would have taken my time pointing him to the science that exists. What actually happened was not scientific inquiry, but rather a witch hunt.
Instead of suggesting that Dr. Smiechowski is not properly educated, why not contact her directly and ask her about her education? Is this a scientific community or a tabloid? If Himalayan salt is really a sham, why not actually give the readers of this site an opportunity to have real facts? Without looking at both sides and having a real dialogue, the author of this post has done nothing more than what you and others have accused the supporters of CAM.
I agree that weak and unfounded ideas should be weeded out. But Himalayan salt and other forms of salt therapy have been used for thousands of years and still exist because they work. There is a HUGE body of scientific evidence not printed in English that supports this. It is not just my opinion, and if you or anyone connected to this looked beyond what you already know and believe, you would find the science.
I actually have nothing to lose financially from writing. I am just disturbed that people claiming to offer “only well-researched, reasoned answers…or [no] unsubstantiated nonsense from us” would consider this type of tabloid wrting to be scientific. And I am VERY concerned that someone who might benefit from Himalayan salt will not try it because of your opinions.
You definitely have the right to your opinion, but call it that instead of trying to spread it as fact. Look into the science that exists. Do not deny that it exists because it does not agree with what you think is true. Ignoring evidence is not actually scientific inquiry. The science for Himalayan salt is actually out there, and anyone who knows how to research beyond Google can find it.
Thank you for the opportunity to post here and be heard.
Reposting the comment from my site, as he commented there as well:
Instead of saying that “Studies have been done”, usually people would be so good as to point me to those studies, if they would like to correct me.
Offering a criticism of anything is not “irresponsible” – There have been some outlandish claims made by your organization. I simply suggest that before shilling money out of people that you consider actually proffering evidence that it actually works, other than “it makes some people feel better”. I’m quite aware of the placebo effect, it’s apparent that you rely on it rather than posting any sort of scientific studies to back your claim.
How many people in your organization actually have any scientific training whatsoever? Presenting someone with a doctorate in homeopathy from some overseas university as some sort of scientific “expert” is laughable. Offering this article up on my own site, with comments enabled sounds to me like an offering of dialog. The information on your site regarding your therapists is woefully thin.
As I said in my post, there is research to show that a simple salt inhaler will do the job (for some people with certain breathing issues) that you claim you need a hugely expensive salt cave for. That implies that simply sitting in salt provides benefits to EVERYONE. That’s an outlandish claim, and one that should be questioned. Especially in a situation where parents might give out money to heal their children. The problem I have with outlandish claims like this is that it leads people who need actual help away from the medical professionals that CAN help them.
No, I don’t need to post my credentials. They don’t matter. I’m not the one claiming that this works. I’m simply raising the question. It’s up to you, on your site, or here, to post evidence of your claims.
William: I’d like to add this to Sharon’s post, one quick, additional question: Can you offer a link or other resource to a verifiable, peer-reviewed study that shows that Himalayan salt caves provide a positive, non-placebo effect on everyone? A single link to a single verifiable study, somewhere on your site would speak volumes.
I work in technology and marketing. I know how to form language in such a way to convince people of my position. However, I would argue that in your post(s), and on your site you have made several claims that simply have not and cannot be verified by any scientific means. You represent yourself as a “medical” treatment, even though you claim that people should continue actual real medical treatment. All well and good, but without verifiable evidence of your claims, it’s reasonable and rational to question them. You claim that you don’t care about the money, and yet tell me: How many people do you treat for free?
I would say that it’s best if people learn how to examine claims like yours for veracity, but unfortunately the vast majority of people do not. I do question the ethics of offering unproven medical treatments for cash.
If I’m wrong, fine. I will post a full retraction and take down that article. Simply show me the *scientific* evidence. Arguments from anecdotal evidence simply will not do. Will you do the same? If there is scientific evidence that Himalayan Salt Caves provide little to no benefit over existing medical treatments other than a placebo or relaxation effect, will you close your doors and go home and make a conscious decision to not deceive the public? Or at least post disclaimers on your site that this therapy is only for relaxation, and provides no other medical benefit?
Could you please show me where anyone from my organization has made “outlandish” claims? In particular, can you show me where I have made ANY medical claims or identified our salt cave as a medical treatment? I do not see any claims that I have made. I only see where I have questioned your post and the way you went about writing it, and that is the issue here.
Did you ever give me the opportunity to communicate with you in a direct manner? If I was writing an article to try to debunk something, I would leave no stone unturned, especially before I made claims that challenge someone’s professional credentials in a public forum. I might actually contact the person claiming to be the expert and I might actually identify myself, what I am doing, and ASK for the scientific evidence. I might ask for Dr. Smiechowski’s credentials, rather than implying that she is not adequately trained. Had I known what you were doing, I would have gladly pointed you to the research that exists. I do not believe I used the word “irresponsible,” but I did use the word “reckless” because I believe that posting information that is only half researched is just as bad as what you are claiming supporters of CAM do.
As to the scientific expertise of my business, everyone we have on our team is appropriately educated from legitimate colleges, universities, and credentialing programs. Everyone who is required to be professionally certified and licensed is. If you would like the CV’s of all of our practitioners, why don’t you make a drive to our Center and I can share them with you (although I am not sure why the credentials of my team are being questioned–the issue here is about your posting about salt)? As to my own, I hold a BA, MA, and Ph.D. from accredited colleges and univertisites. I have worked in academia and research since 1994, and I adhere to the absolute highest standards of scientific inquiry. My center was founded on the desire to give people access to more resources. You may not agree with my beliefs, but that does not make them unsupported or wrong.
As to how many people I treat for free, I personally provide free treatments on a regular basis. For every 20 paying clients that I see, I offer one free treatment, but because I am not all about the money, it usually turns out to be way more than that. I regularly donate treatments to local schools and other organizations because it is my mission to do good in the world, not to deceive anyone. And if I for even a second doubted the benefits of what we offer, we would not offer it. Given the people with your beliefs and access to post things like you have, I would not risk my professional reputation and the good name that I have built by offering something that was not legitimate. Before we opened our salt cave, I did the research that I needed to do to fully believe in this, as I was honestly skeptical at first, too. Skepticism is healthy–but unfounded accusations and insinuations are not. I am not the type of person who could in good conscience make money off something that wasn’t real. But you wouldn’t know that, because you did not take the time to communicate directly with me. And as to how much money I am personally making off the salt cave, as if this is anyone’s business, at $10/session, I do not actually make a profit off this part of my business. By the time you include the cost of building the cave, the rent that I pay, personnel costs, advertising costs, maintenance, etc., this is not a huge moneymaker. It is really something that I offer because I believe in it strongly and in addition to the science that exists, I have watched it help people over and over again.
I absolutely admit that my business website does not list the science. Scientists are typically not exploring my website. The website was designed as a marketing tool to show our customers what we have to offer–not persuade or convince them. On a regular basis, people contact us and ask about the validity of a treatment…and when the question is asked, it is our policy to direct the client to information so that they can weigh it out for themselves and decide if this is something they want to do. We do not try to persuade anyone of anything they do not want to do. If you have actually looked at our website, you will see that we have directed people to various respected sources on a variety of CAM treatments.
But because my personal website does not list the science does not mean that it does not exist. If you are asking me for the research, it tells me that you did not find it. I am assuming from the quotes from my website that you did a Google search. You will not find this research in the English language, so Google is not going to help you find it.
I am going to track down the research. Sorry, it won’t be in a simple weblink form, but after I consult with the real expert on this, Dr. Smiechowski, I will come back to this post and summarize the research for you.
When you see this research, I do not really care if you keep your post up or not, because at this point it is very clear to me that your mission is not really what the website says it is.
Apparently the comment depth has hit it’s limit, so I have to reply to my own post rather than William’s.
I don’t know you personally. I don’t know Dr. Smiechowski’s credentials, other than what searching the internet AND YOUR WEBSITE itself offers.
I’ve repeatedly asked you to provide a simple link to the evidence you claim exists. Until you do, I don’t think attempting to discredit my “opinion piece” is very reasonable. I understand you take my opinion very personally, as it is your life’s work, but in all of your flowery prose, you have yet to offer a single rational reason to believe your organization’s claims.
My own “personal bias” is that I prefer people who make medical and/or scientific claims to back those claims up with the actual science. Your website offers MANY claims, most of them backed up by anecdotes rather than any real evidence. THAT is the source of my issue – You make wild claims, with no verifiable reason to believe them.
Offering 1 in 20 clients treatments for free is interesting, although I suppose it’s really no different that offering a 5% discount to all of your clients. A shrewd business move, but I wouldn’t lean on it to show that your motives are charitable.
If you have no interest in actually providing evidence for your claims, then I’m not sure what contacting you directly would have accomplished.
I would like to point out that you have called my article “irresponsible”, and “unsubstantiated”. However, with all of your posts, you have yet to post a single link (or even a direct off-line reference) to a peer-reviewed study. I would call THAT irresponsible, I would think you would have a few examples ready if you truly had any interest in actually helping people.
The issue at hand here isn’t whether you provide a nice, relaxing time to people that they enjoy. It’s that you claim ADDITIONAL “mysterious” benefits for everyone, that you can’t actually provide evidence for. You couch it all in marketing lingo to attract people who do not have the skills to evaluate your claims in a skeptical way. It’s apparent to me that when a layperson DOES make a public claim, that it’s important to you to try and discredit that person before someone takes their claims seriously. But as with all arguments, it comes down to the actual facts, and not unproven claims.
If I were to tell you that I was a medical health professional, that might give weight to my argument. If you were to tell me that you have personally performed double-blind studies, and could show me the research (and did), that would help yours. Alternatively, you could provide information for research where double-blind studies were done. It might even fly if you could post a hypothesis as to why Himalayan salt is better than any other salt, and how your therapy actually helps people.
However, your posts imply that you are building your business on research that you have heard about -> That you can’t actually produce. You expect us to take you at your word that the research was done, and that you are a professional and we should just accept your word for it. THAT’s why your credentials are relevant: Because you use them in your claims in that we should just take your word that your treatments provide a health benefit for all. Your entire argument is apparently based on an improper claim to authority. I think my arguments stand on their own, that’s why my background is irrelevant.
If you think I have something personal against you, it’s incumbent on you to provide evidence for that as well. I don’t know you, and I don’t know your homeopathic therapist. I find it hard to see how anyone could claim I have a personal issue with you or your staff. However, continuing to try to attack me, personally, is irrelevant to my actual criticism.
I have access to many scientific journals through a university database. If there is a reference given, I can likely get it.
Please provide.
I will second what Brian said… most people are easily fooled by sciencey sounding things. The goal of KSRI is to point out where it is important to take a second look. Not only do some of us have scientific training (and practice in critical thinking, which is primarily what this is about) but can consult with experts.
Yes, I am capable of looking at university databases and consulting with experts, too. Have you looked at university databases, and have you consulted with the experts on Himalayan salt?
At this point, I’m not sure this is about critical thinking, but more about a personal vendetta to make other people look foolish.
I will provide you with a summary of the research that convinced me, but I realize now that that is not really what this is about.
More later…
It’s incumbent on you to post the evidence for your claims. That’s the core of what science is about. That’s all this is about, organizationally, and personally for me.
If you want to claim otherwise, it’s on you to make the argument for it. I don’t run around “just making people look foolish”. If you look at my site, you’ll see that I’ve only ever posted one opinion piece (Because it’s the first article I’ve found that I can write an opinion on). By your logic, I could claim that you have it in for ME.
Of course, since you don’t know me, that claim would be just as ridiculous.
Dear Brian–
I will repeat once again…show me where I have made any claims about anything. Use a DIRECT QUOTE from my website, from my words here, or from references to my work anywhere on the web, so I can understand what you mean by me making irresponsible or “mysterious” claims.
I don’t have readily available research pieces to show you because I am not at my office today. I have asked Dr. Smiechowski to send me the files (which is something you could have done) and once I get them, I hope later today, I will post them on this page. There are not Internet references to this research that I can just give you a link to, because the research comes from actual books (written in Polish) that were printed before the Internet. To my knowledge, they are not published anywhere on the Internet, although when I have more time I will certainly do my own university database search to confirm. Before I opened my business, I reviewed the research and that, combined with interviews from people using salt therapy in Poland, convinced me that it is real. Now, if debunking CAM modalities is truly your passion, you should know that the FDA does not allow us to make any claims, so using the fact that we have no claims or support on our website is not an argument that such data does not exist.
I’m not sure where you see any personal attack on you. I have a problem with the way you “researched” your post (and even subsequent responses)–and I definitely have a problem with your comments on Dr. Smiechowski’s credentials, which could have easily been obtained with an e-mail or phone call. But I have not made any comments about you personally.
While you say the burden of proof is on me to prove that salt therapy is effective, why not actually give me that opportunity? If you have the authority to write a de-bunking article, why not ask me BEFORE your print the article? Why wait until after to ask me for the research? And yes, if you are an authority on what is bunk, I would like to understand what makes you an expert on bunk. Have you ever actually studied anything that makes you an expert? I could certainly write an article on my belief that American cars are better than foreign cars, but given that I have no education related to cars, should my opinion be considered?
As for sharing the information about free treatments that I offer, this was not an attempt to convince you or anyone that I have altruistic motives. You asked me if I give away treatments for free, and the truth is that I do, so I was simply answering your question. Although some may consider it a wonderful marketing move, that is not why I started doing this. I believe very strongly in giving back to my community, and that is why I do this. I do not usually advertise that I do this to strangers, but you were the one who asked.
And here is the bottom line for me…if you don’t believe in salt therapy, that is fine. (Although I would like to invite you and Sharon up to receive a treatment on me so you can experience it yourself, because something tells me that for all you’ve got to say about it, you’ve never actually had a salt cave treatment yourself.) If you don’t believe in it but other people feel benefit from it, why do you have to destroy that for those people who do? If salt therapy was dangerous, I could understand. But even if it IS only the relaxation benefit that matters, why not let people have that? Why can’t people just admit that just because they don’t see the proof, it doesn’t mean that the proof doesn’t exist or that something isn’t real. If we were doing harm to people, that would be one thing, but we are really improving peoples’ lives in ways that probably can’t even be measured by a university study.
Himalayan salt is not my life work…but helping people is, and I stake my professional name that this is valid. As I wrote earlier, I will be back to post this research as soon as I get it from Dr. Margaret. That I do not have it in my back pocket is not evidence that it does not exist or I have based my business on half truths. My business is actually based on care for other people.
More later…
“…absorb the minerals from the salt, as well as the negative ions given off from it, which creates a natural detoxification effect.”
If either Margaret or William can provide some methodology and evidence for this claim, I bet you..oh, about 1 million dollars that Brian, Sharon and I will turn on a dime and stand right behind you.
So far I’ve only seen a whole ton of hand waving and finger pointing. Still waiting for that evidence!
Which is it? Are Salt caves something that you are qualified to argue for, or not? Do you have actual evidence that Himalayan salt caves provide an actual health benefit for everyone (as you have claimed several times), or don’t they?
I would suggest re-reading my original article, it’s a apparent to me that you’ve glossed over some of it, given that you claim that I missed the research you posted later.
I also posted in my original article direct quotes from the newsvine posting and your website as to the claims your organization makes. I see no need to repeat them again.
Claiming that salt can have some health benefit is true (When inhaled in a solution, and to help with two specific diseases). Claiming that spending money to sit in a salt cave is an effective way to realize that benefit is dubious. It’s that simple.
http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa043891
Dr. Smiechowski is also not in her office today, but shared with me this study from the New England Journal of Medicine that does show a positive, non-placebo benefit. There are actually more studies like these. I will continue to find them for you as time permits.
I will also still send the research that I reviewed from Dr. Smiechowski when I receive it, which is more general population specific.
I’m just confused as to why you didn’t mention this study or others like it in your post. The research IS out there. You just have to look or ask.
I actually did mention the benefits this article references in my original post. The fact is that this article does not in anyway make a claim to the efficacy of Himalayan Salt Caves.
From my “opinion piece”:
There may be health benefits to ingesting or inhaling salt. There are studies that show that there is a benefit to inhaling a salt solution, through a (cheap) inhaler, to help with bronchitis or cystic fibrosis. It’s laughable to claim that you will get that benefit merely by “hanging out in a salt cave”. There are certainly no actual scientific studies to support the idea.
I can do the same with my $3 bottle of saline solution from the grocery store. This is not really support for salt caves.
After reading through these posts again, I got angry. Really angry. William wrote: “Our American field of immunizations is based on the same principles as homeopathy.”
That’s way off the mark and disingenuous. Vaccinations provoke an immune response, producing measurable antibody resistance. Homeopathy (like cures like) is dilution to a ridiculous degree and there is no measurable immune response.
Then he notes: “…the author of this post has any ability to educate about the chemical composition of salt. Is this author a scientist?”
Perhaps not and Brian made a great point that he doesn’t have to be because he is not calling himself the expert and endorsing the claim. However, I am a geologist with experience in geochemistry. I can figure out what salt is. Your assertion that average people shouldn’t question what they may not know about is appalling.
In the same sense, he says Brian’s post is “reckless”. I lost it here. Who exactly is being reckless here? The average, concerned citizens who dare to questions your basis for making such claims? Or the pseudo-scientists who don’t follow the rigorous procedures and norms of the scientific process but push their so-called therapies?
The public can read and decide from both viewpoints which is exactly why KSRI was formed – to question and counter unsupported claims.
Wow. I completely missed that comment about homeopathy. I was holding out hope that he was simply a businessman unfamiliar with his product, but he actually compares homeopathy to vaccines?
Being the owner of the Tranquility Salon and Wellness Center, I personally invite Mr. Fields to do his own case study on the benefits of our Salt Cave. He is welcome to come and see and feel the positive effects that occur after several visits. This cave is not to be seen as a fix all or ” miracle maker” if someone needs certain medical attention for specific ailments, “They need to seek Medical Attention” Our cave offers a Holistic Approach to healing with the effects of Salt. We have ALREADY seen positive effects when it comes to sinus issues and respiratory aliments. Mr. Fields please come whenever you like for a “Free” tour and session or sessions. We have nothing to hide but the true healing benefits salt therapy offers!!!
I appreciate your offer, and the spirit in which it is given. However, the point I’ve been trying to make is that anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all. To truly test the scientific veracity of a claim, you have to perform a double-blind study under controlled conditions. My criticism is based on the idea that I don’t believe that this has been done, indeed, I could find no evidence myself of such a study.
I could accept the idea that the relaxation from such a cave is helpful, but when you extend that claim into claims of “bathing in negative ions” to get specific health benefits, now you have moved into “snake oil” tactics, if you can’t back up that claim.
I’d be happy to take you up on your offer if it weren’t for the fact that I feel it would be a waste of both of our times, as you can’t perform a double blind study with one person, or the anecdotes of a thousand people. You need to count the “misses” as well, people who see no benefit at all. Do you keep a record, at the very least, of how many people you can definitively say to have cured with your cave? How about those that have had no benefit at all?
BTW, William posted one last “rebuttal” on my site here:
http://geekexile.com/2011/03/more-woo-comes-to-central-pennsylvania/
I am posting the references supplied by William Kelley. There was some trouble with the comments…
From Dr. Smiechowski:
Medical References:
Most of the dozens of clinical trials thus far, mainly reported in Russian-language journals, have focused on the use of Speleotherapy as a treatment for asthma, chronic bronchitis, a range of respiratory conditions and potentially against systemic diseases. Clinical studies have also been published in the New England Journal of Medicine (2006) demonstrating that the inhalation of saline produces sustained mucus clearance and improved lung function in patients with Cistic Fibrosis. In 1995 the Journal of Aerosol Medicine reported significant improvements in patients with various types of respiratory diseases (bronchial asthma, chronic obstructive and non-obstructive bronchitis, bronchiectasis, cystic fibrosis) who were treated with halotherapy (salt therapy) in a placebo-controlled clinical trial.
Chernenkov RA, Chernenkova EA, Zhukov GV.
[The use of an artificial microclimate chamber in the treatment of patients with chronic obstructive lung diseases]
Vopr Kurortol Fizioter Lech Fiz Kult. 1997 Jul-Aug ;( 4):19-21. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 9424823
Chervinskaya AV, Zilber NA.
Halotherapy for treatment of respiratory diseases
J Aerosol Med. 1995 Fall;8(3):221-32.
PMID: 10161255
Gorbenko PP, Adamova IV, Sinitsyna TM.
[Bronchial hyperreactivity to the inhalation of hypo- and hyperosmolar aerosols and its correction by halotherapy]
Ter Arkh. 1996; 68(8):24-8. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 9019826
Grinshtein IuI, Shestovitskii VA, Kuligina-Maksimova AV.
[Clinical significance of cytological characteristics of bronchial inflammation in obstructive pulmonary diseases]
Ter Arkh. 2004; 76(3):36-9. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 15108456
Grigor’eva NV.
[Halotherapy in combined non-puncture therapy of patients with acute purulent maxillary sinusitis]
Vestn Otorinolaringol. 2003;(4):42-4. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 13677023
Abdrakhmanova LM, Farkhutdinov UR, Farkhutdinov RR.
[Effectiveness of halotherapy of chronic bronchitis patients]
Vopr Kurortol Fizioter Lech Fiz Kult. 2000 Nov-Dec ;( 6):21-4. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 11197648
Maev EZ, Vinogradov NV.
[Halotherapy in the combined treatment of chronic bronchitis patients]
Voen Med Zh. 1999 Jun; 320(6):34-7, 96. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 10439712
Chervinskaia AV.
[The scientific validation and outlook for the practical use of halo-aerosol therapy]
Vopr Kurortol Fizioter Lech Fiz Kult. 2000 Jan-Feb ;( 1):21-4. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 11094875
Farkhutdinov UR, Abdrakhmanova LM, Farkhutdinov RR.
[Effects of halotherapy on free radical oxidation in patients with chronic bronchitis]
Klin Med ( Moscow ). 2000;78(12):37-40. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 11210350
Borisenko LV, et al
[The use of halotherapy for the rehabilitation of patients with acute bronchitis and a protracted and recurrent course]
Vopr Kurortol Fizioter Lech Fiz Kult. 1995 Jan-Feb ;( 1):11-5. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 7785211
Roslaia NA, Likhacheva EI, Shchekoldin PI.
[Efficacy of therapeutic use of ultrasound and sinusoidal modulated currents combed with halotherapy in patient with occupational toxic-dust bronchitis]
Vopr Kurortol Fizioter Lech Fiz Kult. 2001 Jan-Feb ;( 1):26-7. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 11530404
Maliavin AG, Filiaeva IuA, Umakhanova MM, Chervinskaia AV.
[Halotherapy-a new treatment of bacterial vaginosis]
Vopr Kurortol Fizioter Lech Fiz Kult. 2004 May-Jun ;( 3):35-7. (Article in Russian)
PMID: 15216790
Wark, P.A.B. and V. McDonald (2004), “Nebulised Hypertonic Saline for Cystic Fibrosis,” Cochrane Review (abstract), http://www.update-software.com/abstracts/AB001506.htm (as of August 3, 2004).
In case these thirteen clinical studies are not enough, the following websites offer additional support:
Tano, L Tano
Salt mine rehabilitation center
http://www.kopalniasoli.pl/en/objects/health-centre/about-the-centre/about-the-centre.html
http://www.sanatoria.org/eng/sanatorium/kopalniasoli.html
http://nationalnursingreview.com/2010/08/halotherapy/
http://www.pravasolnajaskyna.sk/ClinicalResults.htm
http://www.crklan.com/speleotherapy-and-halotherapy-for-healthy-lungs-and-skin/
http://www.aai.mf.vu.lt/alerimun/renginiai/99_05_palanga/2dalis.htm
http://www.salinetherapy.com/html/asthma___bronchitis.html this website is really good
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18019972
http://www.saltrocks.org/Salt-Pipe_Clinical-Trial-Study-of-Asthma-Bronchitis-COPD.html
http://www.saltrocks.org/Salt-Pipe_Clinical-Trial-Study-of-Children-With-Asthma-Etc.html
http://hyeforum.com/index.php?showtopic=12047
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jorbons/souterrains/art/saltrome.html
http://www.salt-touch.com/articles/speleochamber.aspx
http://www.salitair.co.uk/published_studies.php
http://www.pravasolnajaskyna.sk/ReferencesNCBI.htm
http://www.saltspacolorado.com/research.html
If you are still reading, here is something else that might be of interest from Dr. Smiechowski about the mines at Wieliczka: http://www.wieliczka.com.pl/site.php?
Just clicked on one site: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18019972
It proved to be not very supportive. I’m in the process of looking into these more but if this is the best research…then more work needs to be done to show it has any value other than novelty.
AIM: to evaluate the effects of a dry salt inhaler in adults with COPD (stages II and III).
RESULTS: As far as spirometry results are concerned no statistically significant results were recorded. However we found out there was a statistically significant improvement in the six minutes walk test values and quality of life assessed by means of Saint George Respiratory Questionnaire. There were no serious adverse events. Minor adverse events were represented by sore throat sensation usually after prolonged exposure to salt (over 15 minutes continuously)–this improved promptly with temporarily discontinuation and no additional action was necessary.
CONCLUSION: Dry salt inhaler therapy may prove to be a useful adjuvant therapy in COPD as far as effort tolerance and quality of life is concerned. However further studies are probably needed to exclude a placebo effect which could not be quantified under present circumstances.
What strikes me is the constant confusion of the terms “speliotherapy” and “halotherapy”. One of the articles I read had the title “Articles supporting Speliotherapy and Halotherapy, when all of the articles were about Halotherapy (Salt therapy). It floors me that the argument that salt can be helpful MEANS to these people that a salt cave is the best possible therapy.
I really gotta stop myself from saying “Salt Cave” too – I mean it’s ridiculous marketing lingo, we’re talking about a room encrusted in salt, not an underground environment (Unless it’s a basement, but still, rather silly).
I have been to the actual salt caves and mines of Wielitzka, Poland, where they have dug out over 200 miles of tunnels over the course of 900 years or so, have any of the rest of you? It became evident and obvious centuries ago that the salt miners averaged longer, healthier lives than the ordinary citizens living and working ordinary lives in the sunshine and pure air above ground. This was not some health concept that the people of that time were trying to push, this was just simple, obvious observation made over the course of hundreds of years by simple uneducated people of the time. Sure, uneducated people can come up with all kinds of superstitions and quackery, but the idea of a mining occupation being more healthy than farming or other occupations was so totally against logic that it could hardly be something they just manufactured out of the blue. The evidence was there. Many men with health problems deliberately became miners in order to get the benefits. Did it cure everything and everybody, of course not… but it was inarguably effective in countless cases over many centuries. Eventually, underground clinics were established and people came from all over Europe, even aristocracy and royalty, to spend time in the mines and caves — not what you might expect such people to do unless many of them received more benefit than mere relaxation. And the clinics still exist to this day. As has been written here several times already, just because a concept is not American or written in English is no indication that it is spurious or automatically suspect. Any American who has lived in Europe or other parts of the world like I have can assure you that our way of doing things or our way of thought is by no means always the best way. The wisdom of other cultures can greatly benefit us, if we have the sense and intelligence to listen.
That’s actually a fallacy called the “appeal to age” or “ancient wisdom”. Just because it’s old or from older cultures doesn’t mean it’s correct. Maybe it suggests such processes are not generally HARMFUL or perhaps moderately helpful but there is usually an improvement made in treatments as the culture becomes more advanced.
G. Berry: Correlation does not equal causation. Just because a population seems to be healthier, it doesn’t mean it’s because they have a local salt cave. There are plenty of variables in a population to account for higher average health (And unless you did any kind of study of the population, that “higher health” claim is simply anecdotal.
As I wrote in my blog, do you know what they call alternative medicine that works? Medicine. If some “ancient culture” used to do it as a practice, it does not mean that they had some sort of hidden wisdom.
Here’s my problem with salt caves: Say you have a headache, and you are told the best medicine for a headache is aspirin (An ancient remedy that we now accept as healthy not only for headaches, but for high blood pressure). The “Salt Cave” approach seems to take the idea that a simple remedy is best applied for everyone through a silly (and most likely ineffective) delivery technique.
With my aspirin example, it’s akin to hanging up willow bark on the walls and charging $10 or more a session for people with high blood pressure to sit in that room.
It might work (Sitting quietly in a room is relaxing, and that alone might bring down your blood pressure). However, it’s not because the aspirin’s “magic ions” flow through the skin and lower the blood pressure, or get inhaled because they are in the air.
There’s a much simpler delivery mechanism: Taking a processed pill. It works. It’s shown by science to actually work. It’s also quite cheap, and has a large, provable health benefit. Salt therapy may work: There are positive studies, but it’s still being researched. It has a low chance of side effects, so a cheap salt inhaler sounds like a reasonable solution to a problem (Bronchitis and Cystic Fibrosis).
Alternative medicine claims a shortcut to that process of peer review and examination. Our ancestors didn’t have a mechanism to filter through BS claims: What they had was correlation: If someone got better doing something, they assumed that would work for everyone. The simple fact that humans tend to heal most things on their own is notwithstanding.
It also provides fertile ground for charlatans and amateur “healers” to make money from the public. It doesn’t matter if it actually works, if it makes the public feel better about getting better, that alone seems to be the only rational justification for doing this. If you advertised “Well, we don’t know if this works, but give it a shot”, at least you’d be honest. However, that’s not what the purveyors of alternative medicine do: They come up with (obviously) BS claims about how the medicine MIGHT work (In a way that sounds sciencey enough for the public to accept). I don’t know who came up with the “negative ion” explanation, but that’s a clearly falsifiable statement.
It’s akin to the snake oil sellers of old, simply modernized to disguise itself as science. Do you know what they call alternative medicine that has been actually proven to work?
Medicine.
What called my attention to this particular issue is that there are a few common properties to all snake oil salesman claims:
1) They make outlandish claims, not easily disproved by laymen.
2) They lean on established logic and take it one step further into the illogical, subtly enough that a layman won’t catch it.
3) They claim to a universal cure: That is, a cure that doesn’t matter what the illness is. The reason for this is simple, why claim a disease only a few people have when you can increase your profits by hawking your cure to everyone?
4) They refuse to examine their claims to prove or disprove them. They rely on other people to do their research. Why spend the money to potentially undercut your own profits?
Even the pharmaceutical companies, as vilified as they are, are required by the FDA to actually prove a drug works before releasing it. “Alternative Medicines” can subvert this process by claiming an all-natural cure. Of course this is ludicrous: Cyanide, for example, is completely all natural. Mercury is as well, but kills much slower.
To KSRI: does anyone know of a codified list of the properties of charlatan cures? It’d be great if we could come up with a common list, not sure if one exists.
I’m certain there are references. I compiled a list of characteristics of pseudoscientists – that’s a bit different. Pseudoscientists tend to toil away at something they feel has some merit. They aren’t deliberately deceptive. I have “Trick or Treatment” on my list of books to get. That might be a helpful resource. But, for starters, there are some articles on Quackwatch. http://www.quackwatch.com/
Here’s a direct link to their list, but it’s a little more specific than I was looking for:
http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/spotquack.html
Crap, I used the same joke twice.
By the way, G. Berry, I don’t necessarily think you are a charlatan. There’s plenty of other possibilities, such as that you’ve been duped by the same ideas that you are passing on to other people. However, it’s my suggestion that you do some research into the alternative therapies you offer, and how the scientific community examines claims before engaging people dedicated to examining those claims.
Oh, and there’s a difference between working in a salt mine (inhaling salt vapors from chipping away at salt and stone), and hanging out in a salt encrusted room. If salt helps with breathing issues, it probably countered the breathing issues inherent in mining. (At least it would be somewhat reasonable). I wouldn’t be surprised if it DID provide a health benefit for those miners: Coupled with the regular exercise inherent in mining, they probably were quite healthy.
BUT, unless you are offering a salt mine in the US that your patients can go chip away at, it’s snake oil.
That’s a good point. How do we know that there is not some other variable in the cave/mine that is causing the benefit (like, the air at the surface is polluted)? Trying to recreate the environment with just pieces of salt may not be achieving the same ends. Or, perhaps just sitting an a humid, quiet place is good for your ills. I’m not sure if the variables are being considered here. Those would be my questions before assuming some alternate setup would work.
Oh, and I thought we were talking about Himalayan salt, not Polish salt? Why does it matter that it’s Himalayan salt?